Which reasons that concern every man are there to help the Ukraïne?

@what_game_is_this said in #14:
> #12
> No such law exists. There is a possibility to voluntarily send troops.

Well I never mentioned a law

@Noflaps said in #17:
> Ukraine was NOT in NATO.
They really wanted to enter it and NATO wanted to even if the USA promised to not expand NATO.

> You don't need to destroy city after city to keep Ukraine out of NATO.

Actually a human watch report said that Ukrainian troops hid in cities filled with civilians. What’s more, Ukraine doesn’t even want to respect humanitarian corridors instated by Russians.

> Even after all this, Ukraine is STILL not in NATO. The invasion just made people WANT to put them in NATO. But we shouldn't.

They wanted to put Ukraine in NATO before the invasion.

> Hitler gave B.S. "reasons" for invading the Chechs and Poland, too. Don't believe such nonsense.

Well I totally don’t support Hitler but Poland decided to cut the Danzig corridor.

> True, much of the world's nonsense right now us
@s2numbuq35i said in #18:
> Why not? Because Putin doesn't allow it? Or because you're afraid he'll start nuclear war? Whatever your answer, Putin should have no say in who gets to join NATO, because Putin is not in NATO. His type of aggressor is the reason NATO exists in the first place.

As I said already, the USA promised to Gorbachev that NATO will go down if the USSR goes down and then they said to Putin that they won’t expand in Eastern Europe.

> What he can do is treat his neighboring countries so badly (literally raping, looting and pillaging them)

There is no proof for that so this statement is false.

>that they want to join any mutual defense pact, which is their right and due course of action considering the vicious threat to their safety. So invigorating NATO pull was his doing, as NATO was in some ways on its ass before he emboldened it and rekindled member states' commitment to its finances.

NATO is legally a mutual Defense pact but it is just made to intimidate Russia and the USSR.

> His action have European leaders talking about doubling(!) our weapons budget. I observe Putin not as a leader, but as a pawn for the fossil and weapons industries, which together are larger than the USA economy itself.

It seems that he is a pawn that gains a better economy for his country - I don’t understand why this is hatable.

@I_invented_google said in #21:
> There is no proof for that so this statement is false.

That's not how logic works

Ukraine was not in NATO. Period.

I "want" to be younger and better looking. But that's not going to turn me into a movie star. I hope the point is obvious.

And, as @clousems has more generally indicated, there is no "proof" that my great grandmother ate breakfast on April 1, 1900; but we really can't bet against it with absolute assurance. She had a robust appetite.

@I_invented_google
>>@what_game_is_this said in #14:
>>#12
>>No such law exists. There is a possibility to voluntarily send troops.

>Well I never mentioned a law

What made you think he was talking to you?!

looks like everyone 's lost the original topic "help ukraine to survive" and now analyzing putin vs NATO.

...

while still that international convention \ agreement about preventing genocide signed by thismanyhundred nations hasn't even been mentionned.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention

"...the Genocide Convention, is an international treaty that criminalizes genocide and obligates state parties to pursue the enforcement of its prohibition."

It's a LAW!

We HAVE TO help!

I would like to close the thread that is drivin' astray the original question.
plz a mod \ admin do it for me, thx!

@AOOP09 said in #5:
> They came first for the communists,
> and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Though I support Ukraine, I would have to point out, that Ukraine is one of the few countries that passed the AntiCom law in modern world and purged the communists in 2014...and Russia doesn't.

Quoting Martin here this is inappropriate.

Don’t forget that Russia guaranteed safety for the Ukraine in exchange for their nuclear weapons. You can’t make deals with notorious liars.

What reasons are there to support Ukraine? I think a lot have been mentioned. Its pretty obvious that if we allow dictators to get away with taking land by force, it will embolden other dictators to do the same. China, North Korea, who knows? If they have nukes then they might feel they can get away with these things. China is the biggest worry, but Russia could continue to try to take land from others after they are finished with Ukraine, rebuild their military, and are ready to conscript the next ten million recruits while the Russian population sits there accepting their dictatorship as they seem to enjoy doing currently.

But I think overall the main reason has to be just having basic moral values. We should care about the deaths of civilians as well as the military which is largely made up of drafted civilians whether its in Israel/Gaza or whether its in Russia/Ukraine. We should naturally support countries that are being attacked by bigger ones in an effort to expand their territory.

A lot of people want to claim this was really just a Russian response to NATO. This has been debunked hundreds of times by now. For one thing Russia is literally right next door to another country that just joined NATO in 2023...Finland. They have an enormous border with Russia - literally half of Europe's border with Russia - that is way more threatening than Ukraine's narrow border with Russia ever could be.

But when you look at Russia's response to Finland joining, they literally didn't care at all. They certainly aren't threatening an invasion. All they said was some meek response about not militarizing the border. That's it. Otherwise Finland, Sweden joining NATO did not bother Russia or Putin himself.

So the whole thing is and always was just propaganda, pushed by Kremlin sympathizers like Mearsheimer who makes other insane claims as well. If you actually listen to Putin's speeches, and especially Putin's latest interview with Tucker Carlson, where Carlson repeatedly asked him if NATO was to blame, Putin repeatedly has said that the reality is that Ukraine never had a right to exist and was always a part of Russia. So we know the truth now, about this war, about its cause. Putin just wants the USSR back to the way it was. This has nothing to do with their security.

And its truly ridiculous when you think about it even for more than 5 minutes. Ukraine never had a serious army. They literally had a SINGLE artillery piece before the war. All of their tanks and aircraft were out of date. They were generally a poor country. And now all of a sudden, when they join a military defence pact, they're supposed to be this incredibly dangerous threat to Russia? But somehow Finland, which is relatively advanced economy with a strong standing army, Russia doesn't care? lol. No. Just no

Depends on who ur:
If ur the enemy of russia then the enemy of ur enemy is your friend
If you economically benefit from Russia not winning then ull help Ukraine
If u follow the concept of "who started it" then ull support Ukraine
If ur Ukrainian then ull mostly support Ukraine
If ur ally with Ukraine or an ally of countries ally with Ukraine then ull support Ukraine
> I'm neutral btw